o political event or circumstance can be evaluated without the knowledge of the Vatican’s part in it. And no significant world situation exists in which the Vatican does not play an important explicit or implicit role. — Avro Manhattan, “Protestant” Knight of Malta, English Historian and Agitator, 1960, The Vatican And World Politics.

The Jesuits offer the world at large a system of theology by which every law, Divine and human, may be broken with impunity, and by which the very Bulls of Popes may be defied. It is a ghastly religion; it is a religion to be abhorred by all honest and honorable men. — M. F. Cusack, Converted Nun of Kenmare, 1896, The Black Pope.

The Jesuits laugh at us; and during their hilarity, the rattlesnake is coiled at our feet, climbing to strike us in the heart. — Edwin A. Sherman, American Shriner Freemason, Friend of Charles Chiniquy, 1883, The Engineer Corps Of Hell.

You could call Eric Jon Phelps a controversial author. We know him as a consummate researcher, a beloved friend, and a gentleman who lives his truth. Our readers will know him best as my interviewee in our now infamous May 2000 issue of The SPECTRUM—the issue that is known far and wide as the “Black Pope” paper.

Eric is also the author of the blockbuster book VATICAN ASSASSINS, an incredibly well researched historical manuscript which shows the reader, in astonishing detail, where the TRUE diabolical power and control of this planet resides—at least that controlling layer which is in the physical dimension.

VATICAN ASSASSINS likewise acquaints the reader with a number of priceless old documents and historical manuscripts that “certain ones” have done their very best to remove from almost all of the world’s library shelves. Most of these documents are so rare that just getting these back into public access and circulation is a great service to all students of history thirsty for The Truth.

There has been so much interest in what Eric has to say that we decided to revisit a number of issues and ask him to answer some dangling questions. After all, the kind of connections which Eric makes are an entire level deeper than what we are used to hearing in the “conspiracy theory” arena. Moreover, we have noted, with some degree of surprise and “unveiling” over the past year or so, just who all have come forward to attack Eric’s work—groundlessly and hysterically (but never to his face). These ones know who they are and have, by their unprofessional and irrational actions, convincingly revealed just who they really work for, while pretending to be presenters of Truth!

While it was my intent to focus the majority of the conversation on the present day, there were some unresolved issues from the past that likewise required clarification. On June 18, 2001, I had an opportunity to sit down with Eric Phelps, face-to-face, and prevail upon him to answer a few key questions. Let’s see what he has to say.

Martin: Our last interview—the “Black Pope” issue of The SPECTRUM—went around the world a few times. It’s also been on the Internet for quite some time. The manuscript of VATICAN ASSASSINS has been distributed, but still no book. What’s happening with the book? Why is it taking so long to come out in book form?

Phelps: The reason why it has taken a year to finalize the book is because there were several historical mistakes that were corrected by some of the readers of the manuscripts, the first and second manuscripts.

There was a Japanese individual named Toichi [Ryu] who corrected me on some of the Japanese history regarding the Emperors and the Shogans, for which I thanked him and made the necessary changes.

There were a few other similar changes that I had to make with regard to dates, places, and some times; just a polishing-up of the manuscript, so that it’s ready now.

We had one individual who was a Jesuit for 10 years. He got out of the Jesuit Order. He read the manuscript. He greatly approved of it. And he sent us a list of corrections, which we incorporated into the manuscript. So, there have been many people who have added their polishing touches to it, for which I am thankful.

[Editor’s note: Wisdom Books & Press (877) 280-2866 is accepting advance orders for VATICAN ASSASSINS, the 700-page book, which should be completed by the second or third week in July. The cost for this huge volume is only $34.95, which includes a gift CD-ROM containing 13 rare books mostly “missing” from the world’s library shelves.]

Martin: I would like to concentrate this conversation largely on the present day. But, before we get to the present, I would ask you to, once and for all, clarify something for our readers who may be still confused about The Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion.

There have been many sources and many reciting's of The Protocols. They’ve been called a fraud. They’ve been called a forgery, which means that there was a document that preceded it that it had to be based on. Everyone seems to point to the Jews, or the Khazars, as the authors of The Protocols, and yet your research indicates otherwise.

Who, in your opinion, authored The Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion?

Phelps: Cardinal Bea was the confessor of Pope Pius XII (Hitler’s Pope), a very powerful Jesuit and Cardinal within the Vatican. According to Alberto Rivera, when speaking with Cardinal Bea, Cardinal Bea said to him that The Protocols were written by Jews loyal to the Pope.

I do not believe Jews wrote The Protocols. I do not believe Alberto Rivera was told the whole story, because he did not have a “need to know”. Withholding information has always been standard procedure for the Jesuits.

I believe men who were loyal to the Pope wrote The Protocols, and the men who were loyal to the Pope who wrote The Protocols were the Jesuits, according to Leo Lehmann—the ex-Irish Catholic priest who became converted to Christ and set-up the mission there in New York City, Converted Catholics For Christ. He said that the Jesuits wrote The Protocols, and that this is no new attempt of deception, based on their document that they wrote concerning their attack on the Jansenists, which was called The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourg-Fontaine.

So, the Jesuits wrote The Protocols like they wrote The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourg-Fontaine, and the language of The Protocols is identical to The Secret Meeting At Cheiri [1825].

However, I have a quotation from a very brilliant and Godly, born-again, Bible-believing, Irish Roman Catholic priest I referred to a moment ago. He wrote a book entitled Behind The Dictators, first written in 1942, and there were two editions after that. I have the 1945 edition. Dr. Leo Lehmann says that the Jesuits wrote The Protocols. But before I get into that, I would just like to read to you who Dr. L. H. Lehmann was.

“He was born in Dublin, Ireland, and received his primary education there from the nuns and Christian brothers. He began his study for the priesthood at Mungret College, Limerick, and at All Hallows College, Dublin. In 1918, he went to finish his theological studies at the University of Propaganda Fide in Rome, where he was ordained a priest in 1921. He later studied at New York University from which he received the degree of M.A.

“After four years as a priest in Cape Town, South Africa, Dr. Lehmann was recalled to Rome to continue negotiations at the Vatican courts concerning a legal case in which he had been engaged, while a student in Rome, on behalf of many American bishops and priests against the Jesuits. He later returned to South Africa, but was transferred to the United States in 1927 and appointed pastor in Gainesville, the university city of Florida. Dr. Lehmann is now director of Christ’s Mission in New York City and Editor-In-Chief of The Converted Catholic magazine.”

So, here is a born-again, Bible-believing man who had been an Irish priest, who had run-ins with the Jesuits, who knew EXACTLY what they were all about. When you’re involved in litigation within the Vatican, you know the law. And you know the history of who you are opposing.

Here is what he had to say about the origin of The Protocols. This is found in his book, Behind The Dictators, on page 15:

“Although first published in Russia in 1903, The Protocols Of [The Learned Elders Of] Zion had their origin in France and date from the Dreyfus Affair, of which the Jesuits were the chief instigators. They were planned also first to take effect in France, by the overthrow of the ‘Judaic-Masonic’ government of the French Republic. But the discovery of the gigantic fraud of Leo Taxil, who had been openly supported by the Jesuits, the concluding of the Franco-Russian alliance, along with the Vatican’s difficulties with the French government at that time, made it more opportune to have them appear first in Russia.

“These Protocols of supposedly Jewish leaders are not the first documents of their kind fabricated by the Jesuits.

“For over a hundred years before these Protocols appeared, the Jesuits had continued to make use of a similar fraud called The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourg-Fontaine against Jansenism—an anti-Jesuit French Catholic movement among the secular clergy.”

Phelps: I might also add that the Jansenists were what we would call, really, Catholic Calvinists. They believed in the sovereignty of God. They believed in justification by faith. They believed in many Biblical doctrines, and therefore the Jesuits hated them and later got the Pope to issue a Bull against them.

The Jesuits so hated the Jansenists, of which Blaise Pascal was one, that they concocted this document, The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourg-Fontaine, against them.

Martin: What year was this?

Phelps: This was in the 1600s, I believe, in France. It may have been the late 1600s, because Blaise Pascal wrote his Provincial Letters in the later 1600s.

[Editor’s note: Eric brings to our attention a VERY interesting person here, much like the great Nikola Tesla of a few hundred years later. Blaise Pascal, 1623-62, was a great mathematician, physicist, theologian, and man-of-letters, born in Clermont-Ferrand, France. In 1647 he invented a calculating machine, and later the barometer, the hydraulic press, and the syringe. Until 1654 he spent his time between mathematics (remember Pascal’s triangle and other intriguing mathematical and geometric discoveries?) and the social round in Paris, but a mystical experience that year led him to join his sister, who was a member of the Jansenist convent at Port-Royal, where he defended Jansenism against the Jesuits in Lettres Provinciales, 1656-7.]

Now, I’ll go back to my reading:

“The analogy between the two forgeries is perfect—the secret assemblage in the forest of Bourg-Fontaine; the plan of the ‘conspirators’ to destroy the Papacy and establish religious tolerance among all nations; the alleged plot against Throne and Altar, and the setting up of a world-government in opposition to the Catholic Church. There is the same dramatization of the negative pole of the historic evolution of the world, in order to bring out, by contrast, the positive Christian [Catholic] pole, around which all conservative forces—the monarchy, the aristocracy, the army, the clergy—must gather to save the world from Satan’s onslaught.”

Phelps: Is this not identical to The Protocols? Except in The Protocols, it’s Communism. Both documents want a world government, under someone other than the Pope. So, it betrays the Jesuit hand throughout, in The Protocols, based upon The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourge-Fontaine; and furthermore, after this document, The Secrets Of the Elders of Bourge-Fontaine, the next major document that we have is Leone’s The Jesuit Conspiracy—The Secret Plan Of The Order, which was published in 1848.

In this document, Jesuit Leone was 19 years old and a novitiate in Cheiri, Italy, where he, when he was snooping around in a back room, became trapped when Jesuit General Roothaan and his provincials came in another room and he listened to this conversation between the General and his provincials—in the mid-1830s, around 1834—and while he was hiding, he was taking notes.

They betray that the Jesuit General was intent upon setting-up a World Government by controlling the Roman Catholic hierarchy, the Pope, all the monarchies, and thus all the governments of the world. And that is in Leone’s great work, The Jesuit Conspiracy, published in 1848.

It was published in several languages. It went all throughout Europe, which contributed to the people rising-up against the power of the Jesuits in 1848, with the Second French Revolution. But that revolution was controlled, the leadership of it was controlled, and the end result was more power for the Jesuit Order in Europe.

Martin: You mention that The Protocols were an outgrowth of the Dreyfus Affair [1890s]. And prior to that we have the Council of Trent [twenty-five sessions of the Council of Trent from 1545-1563]. Can you put this in perspective?

Phelps: Ok. The Jesuits were busy creating Jewish hatred in Germany and in France in the late 1800s. There was a man referred to in Ridpath’s Universal History Of the World—I only found this here—he called his work “the solution to the Jewish question”. Hitler came along, later, and had the FINAL solution to the Jewish question. So, they were fomenting anti-Jewish hatred in Germany, and they were fomenting anti-Jewish hatred in France.

Martin: Who are they?

Phelps: The Jesuits. The Jesuits were fomenting this in both countries because, at this time, the Jesuits had been expelled from Germany in 1872, and they had been expelled from France in 1880. So now they’re going to go after the Jews through their agents in these two countries.

In France, they started the Dreyfus Affair, and that was in the 1890s. The Dreyfus Affair had several purposes. It was to create anti-Semitism—anti-Jewish hatred in France.

I hate to use the word anti-Semitism. There are many Semites other than Jews. And it was also calculated to create war with Germany, because Captain Dreyfus was accused of treason in handing secrets over to the German government. It was all a frame.

He was completely framed. He was sent to Devil’s Island for 10 years, and suffered the horrible tortures of Devil’s Island for that period of time. And then, later, when he was brought back, he was vindicated and found “not guilty”, and the Jesuits were blamed for having done this. So this became universally known in France, which ultimately caused the Jesuits to be expelled, again, in 1901.

The Dreyfus Affair is a major European conspiracy with the Jesuit hand, against the Jews, attempting to foment a war between France and Germany. Because, remember, the French hated the Germans as a result of the trouncing that they got in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. And they wanted vengeance for that.

So, we play on the people’s vengeance, create this issue between Germany and France, we use the Jews to do it so we can get some anti-Jewish fervor going, which ultimately manifests itself in 1942 with the Vichy government in France, when they help the Nazis round-up all the Jews in France and send them to Auschwitz.

And it’s at that time, in 1942, in the Petain, that the Jesuits were formally readmitted into France. That’s the significance of the Dreyfus Affair.

Martin: And what is the significance of the Council of Trent in relation to all of these?

Phelps: The Council of Trent puts heretics—which us Bible-believers are, all Protestants and all Jews—puts all of us under more than 100 curses because of what we believe:

We believe in justification by faith.

“Accursed be all who believe in justification by faith.”

We believe that Baptism is simply an outward sign of salvation, and that it is not necessary for salvation.

“Accursed be all those who believe that.”

We believe that, when we eat of the Lord’s supper, the bread and the wine are NOT the literal body and blood of Christ, as the Council of Trent teaches, therefore we are accursed because we do not believe in transubstantiation.

And we also believe that man has a right to his own judgment. He has a right to read the Bible and make his own decisions as to what it means; that the Bible should be in the language of the people, because this the foundation of freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press.

All of these things in the 4th session of the Council of Trent are condemned, anybody who believes in: freedom of speech, and freedom of conscience, and freedom of the press.

So, those maxims of the Council of Trent are brought into The Protocols when The Protocols condemn freedom of conscience; they condemn freedom of the press; they condemn national governments and national sovereignty.

You see, Bible-believers, we believe in national sovereignty.

We do not believe in World Government.

We believe America should be governed by Americans.

We believe Japan should be governed by Japanese, etc.

We do not believe, we do not want, a European Union.

We do not want a combination of governments under Centralized Government.

We believe in national sovereignties, which is the reason why the South seceded and left the United States, because they wanted to set-up their own national sovereignty; it was a Protestant maxim upon which they acted.

Ok, so Trent effects The Protocols. Trent effects The Secrets Of The Elders Of Bourge-Fontaine. Trent effects The Secret Plan, written by Leone in 1848. And hence, now we have the doctrines of Communism effecting Marx and his Communist Manifesto, because Marx was tutored in the British Museum BY JESUITS.

Martin: Who was behind the Council of Trent, The Secret Plan, etc. Who were the men behind these, historically?

Diego Laynes

Phelps: Well, Diego Laynez went on to be the Jesuit General after Loyola; Laynez was the second Jesuit General. He was the MASTER-MIND of the Council of Trent. Laynez was a Jesuit by allegiance, and a Jew by race. This is very important. And it’s the result of Laynez being a Jew, when this was brought to light in 1593, that the Order passed a statute that NO JEW COULD EVER BE IN THE JESUIT ORDER AGAIN. This is VERY important. This is why Weishaupt was not a Jew. It was against the constitutions of the Order for a Jew to be in the Order.

Martin: And what relation does Weishaupt have to all of this?

Phelps: Weishaupt was the promoter of the Illuminati, with the House of Rothschild, for the punishment of the Catholic monarchs of Europe, and the Pope, for suppressing the Jesuit Order.

So, Weishaupt did not act alone. Weishaupt was under the supervision, at least initially, of Jesuit General Ricci, who died in 1775 in Italy. Weishaupt was under orders.

Martin: Who is Jesuit General Roothaan?

Phelps: Jesuit General Roothaan was the General of the Society from the 1830s to the mid-1850s. Jesuit General Roothaan was the one who oversaw The Secret Plan At Chieri, of which Leone overheard and then wrote about.

Martin: So this is KEY to what we are talking about?

Phelps: Extremely key.

Martin: And who is Peter Beckx?

Phelps: Peter Beckx was the Jesuit General in the late 1800s and early 1900s. He was the one who gave the order and oversaw the sinking of the Titanic.

Martin: Let’s talk about that now. Why have you drawn the historical conclusion that the Jesuits sank the Titanic?

Phelps: Because they benefited. And they were present, on site, on the ship, prior to it’s sinking. When we have a powerful organization that is working together, such as the Jesuit Order, and the power that they had prior to their suppression, and that they had never changed, and they are still working toward a World Government under the Pope, we look for the Jesuit Order in these national crises that arise—and in this issue, the Titanic.

We must ask the question: Even though we can’t place where they are at the moment, did the Jesuit Order benefit from this? And the answer is: Yes, they did.

They benefited because it paved the way for the establishment of the Federal Reserve Bank, which they own and control, by proxy, through the Knights of Malta, with their various trusts and so on. They never own anything outright; they always own it through a trusted third party.

How do we know that the Jesuits control the Federal Reserve Bank? Because the Federal Reserve Bank was used to finance the second “Thirty Years War”—from 1914 to 1945—in which everything that transpired fell out for the benefit of the Vatican, everything.

Then, of course, when we discover that the most powerful man in Ireland, the Jesuit Provincial Francis M. Browne, was on the Titanic taking pictures of all those who would be going down. And then, right before it departs Queenstown, Ireland, to set out for the North Sea, “the lucky priest departed off the ship” in the words of Martin Sheen, who narrated Secrets Of The Titanic.

Martin Sheen

It was more than luck; it was planned that way. Martin Sheen has been to the Jesuit Novitiate at St. Jacques, in Warnersville, Pennsylvania. Martin Sheen is a bosom buddy of the Jesuits.

The men who went down were wealthy Jews who were resisting the establishment of a centralized bank in America, particularly John Jacob Astor, who was a personal friend of Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. And Brandeis greatly resisted the establishment of the central bank.

Martin: Astor, Guggenheim, and Straus were three Jewish men who went down with the Titanic. Why do you focus so much of your attention on Astor?

Phelps: Astor was the wealthiest Jew in the world, some say the wealthiest man in the world. But he was, most definitely, the wealthiest Jew. He did not have more money than the Pope. But he was the wealthiest man in the world and he was using his wealth NOT in accord with the Jesuit Order.

Now, later, his son, John Jacob Astor IV, became part of the money trust, which can be found on the Internet; and so the Jesuits had access, now, to the Astor fortune. They control it now. But, at that time, they got rid of Astor because they wanted his fortune, and they wanted to end his resistance to the establishment of a national bank. And they do this pursuant to The Secret Instructions, that they will take the fortunes of widows and other people who resist them.

And that is what they did in Eugene Sue’s The Wandering Jew. That story revolves around a French Protestant family, the Renneponts, and the Jesuits killing-off every member of the Rennepont family, so that they can have the fortune when it would be opened up at a certain day, at a certain time in Paris. And the man who held the fortune in trust was a Jew. So, that’s why they got rid of Astor.

Martin: What was that quote from the movie JFK about the Titanic?

Phelps: I believe Oliver Stone was overseen by the Jesuits, who control Hollywood. And, therefore, a lot of the lines were authored by Jesuits.

One of the lines authored by the Jesuits was when Garrison was sitting at the table and he said: “People, we’ve got to start thinking differently. We’ve got to start thinking like the CIA. White is black, and black is white.”

That is DIRECTLY from Ignatius Loyola’s Spiritual Exercises. [Ignatius Loyola was the founder of the Jesuit Order in 1540.] When he tells the people that they believe the hierarchical Catholic Church and believe white is black and black is white, if the hierarchy says so. That’s right out of the Spiritual Exercises.

Well then, when one of the associates, Bill, of Garrison’s staff, is approached by an FBI agent, and the FBI agent is trying to win him over to their side, that FBI agent says: “There’s going to be millions of people who are going to die. Besides, you’ve got to get away from Garrison. He’s going down with the Titanic.”

That is a clue, right there, that the same men who were behind the Kennedy assassination, attempting to frustrate Garrison’s investigation, were the same men who sunk the Titanic.

Martin: I’m looking at the front-page headline from a little-known rag-sheet, and the current headline that I’m reading says: “Khazarian Zionists Are The Anti-Christ.” Now, what can you explain to our readers about who might be behind such a headline, and what is the AGENDA of such a headline?

[Editor’s note: Some of you readers who may be familiar with the publication should know that Rick is referring to the June 13, 2001 issue of the CONTACT newspaper.]

Phelps: We know that the Jesuits, in their agendas, hate the Jews.

And you add: “Eric, you say that the Jesuits set up Zionist Israel.”

The Jesuits control the Masonic Jewish Zionists who control Zionist Israel. They HATE the Jewish race. And when I speak of Jews, I’m not speaking of Judaism. I’m not speaking of their evil religion, that openly and notoriously rejects Jesus as the Messiah; even Josephus realized Jesus was the Messiah.

I’m talking about the RACE. And when I’m speaking of the Jewish race, I’m speaking of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons, and their physical descendants. That’s what I mean when I speak of the Jews.

Many, many Orthodoxes today believe there is no such thing as the Jewish race. They are in error about that, because in Romans IX, X, & XI, it speaks specifically about the Jewish race, that Christ was a Jew; that Christ spoke in John, Chapter IV, we know whom we worship for salvation is of the Jews.

So, he identified himself as a Jew. The Apostle Paul identified himself as a Hebrew of Hebrews, an Israelite, etc. So the terms Jew, Israelite, and Hebrew are all synonymous terms; they are the physical, racial descendants of Jacob. And, therefore, the Abraham covenant and promises apply to them, and they have not been fulfilled to this day. They are in the great diaspora—they are in the great dispersion.

And so, Satan, not wanting them to inherit these promises, has set-out to destroy the Jewish race any way he possibly can. And his greatest tool in the destruction of the Jewish race is the Jesuit Order.

Martin: Are you saying that this headline that I just read to you has an agenda behind it?

Phelps: Absolutely.

Martin: And what is that agenda?

Phelps: The agenda is to create world-wide anti-Jewish fury, in every nation of the world, so as to drive all the Jews back to Israel for their final annihilation when the Jesuits bring in the armies of the Earth and when the anti-Christ, the risen Pope, brings in the armies of the Earth in his last, mad attempt to destroy all of the Jews, so that they cannot inherent the promises given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Martin: If there is an intelligence community behind this publication, it’s easy enough to draw the conclusion, from what you’re saying, that the Jesuits, who control the intelligence community, would be specifically behind this agenda to foment hate and agitation against the Jewish race.

Phelps: Absolutely. Especially the American Jews, because there are more American Jews, here in this country, than there are in Israel. And one of their agendas in the next 10-20 years is to create anti-Jewish fury, and to drive the American Jews back to Israel, killing millions of them, as well, here, because they’re planning to bring their Roman Catholic Fascist dictator to power—just like they did with Hitler in Germany; just like they did with Stalin in Russia; just like they did with Franco in Spain; just like they did with Mussolini in Italy. They have the same exact agenda here. They’re going to do it through the Republican, “New Right” party, of which George Bush is now the head.

Martin: At one point, you made a comment privately concerning the Right-Wing militia movement possibly being influenced with another agenda. Can you talk about that?

I’ll just say up-front that this is going to strike at the heart of many people’s belief system. And some may have difficulty with what you say.

Phelps: The Right-Wing militia groups—the posse comitatus, etc., Ku Klux Klan, the Minutemen, they all have one thing in common: they all hate the Jews. That puts up a flag for me. And if they all hate the Jews, that tells me that they have been imbibed, or indoctrinated, with hatred for the Jews. They all hate the Jews; and as an aside, so do the Black Moslems [Muslims]. Louis Farrakhan openly hands-out The Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion and blames all our problems, and all the Black man’s problems, on the Jews.

So, the Right-Wing posse comitatus groups are all controlled by the Jesuits because they are all anti-Jew, and they have NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE JESUIT ORDER. NOTHING!

Martin: Wouldn’t you say that most of the groups just don’t have a clue about the Jesuit Order?

Phelps: Not their leadership. A lot of these groups have Catholics in them. There’s not a Catholic around who doesn’t know the power of the Jesuit Order, in their educational power, and the power of government.

We have Drinin in Congress; we have McLaughlin who was writing speeches for Nixon for $35,000 a year. We have Jesuits all throughout the government. There’s not any intelligent Roman Catholic who’s involved in these Right-Wing Movements who doesn’t know the power of the Jesuits.

THEY DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEM. JUST LIKE THE PRESS WON’T TALK ABOUT THEM.

So, this Timothy McVeigh thing—is that what we’re leading to?

Martin: Well, no, but go ahead.

Phelps: This Timothy McVeigh thing—here’s another Irish Roman Catholic sacrificed, just like Kennedy, for the sake of attempting to create a national backlash or agitation against the Right-Wing Movement people, because a lot of the Right-Wing Movement people are true patriots who want their liberty; they want to maintain their guns; they want freedom to educate their children as they wish; they’re decent people, but they are not aware that the leadership is controlled by the Vatican.

So, the Jesuits in control of Clinton fomented the Oklahoma City bombing to justify going after these Right-Wing, conservative, many of them Bible-believing, people in this movement, for their round-up and extermination. But it didn’t quite work.

So, they imploded the building. They got rid of Timothy McVeigh. That whole execution could have been stayed with one phone call from the Archbishop of New York to the Bishop of Oklahoma City, and he wouldn’t do it.

That was the purpose of the Oklahoma City bombing, the creation of anti-Right-Wing feeling. And the people at the top, controlling the Right-Wing organizations, will betray their own people, just exactly as the White Russians were betrayed during the Communist Revolution from 1917-1922.

Their own leadership will betray them—just as Hitler betrayed his armies to the East, cut-off supplies, would not allow them to take Moscow, froze them in the snows of Russia; just as Napoleon betrayed his armies in the East, abandoned 250,000 men; that’s exactly what’s going to be done to our Right-Wing patriotic people who are the only bulwark against tyranny in this country today.

Martin: We’re almost to the present day. But, before we get to the present day, let’s stop for a minute, once again, and talk about JFK’s assassination. I’m going to mention a few names, and then let’s talk about the Jesuit influence behind that assassination and the reasons why.

John McCone, head of the CIA; Cardinal Spellman, Archbishop of New York; Henry Luce; Carthe DeLouche; and E. Howard Hunt. Why are these names important? What are their relationships? And WHY would you point the finger at someone like the Archbishop of New York, Cardinal Spellman, of all people, to place the responsibility for the JFK assassination directly at the Vatican? How can you justify that?

Phelps: We know we’re looking at a conspiracy, so we ask the question, again: Who benefits? Who benefited from the death of JFK? Well, we know, according to the works of the great Fletcher Prouty, JFK was going to end the Vietnam War in 1965. We also know that JFK was going to end the reign of the CIA, and all of their military, covert operations were going to be handed-over to the Army Chiefs of Staff. Therefore, the CIA benefited, and those who wanted the Vietnam War benefited.

We now must ask the question: Who wanted the Vietnam War? Well, we know that many factions did, but we see, openly and in our face, Cardinal Spellman wanted the Vietnam War. Cardinal Spellman’s man in Vietnam was Diem. Diem was a fascist Roman Catholic, persecuting the Buddhists. And his brother was head of the Secret Police. So, Diem was Cardinal Spellman’s man in Vietnam. Diem was assassinated because Kennedy withdrew the CIA representative out of Saigon.

The other thing is, Cardinal Spellman, throughout the Vietnam War, would travel over there at the war-front and he’d call the soldiers the “soldiers of Christ”, according to Avro Manhattan, in his great work Vietnam: Why Did We Go? So, Cardinal Spellman wanted the Vietnam War, and if Cardinal Spellman wanted the Vietnam War, the Pope wanted the Vietnam War, and if the Pope wanted the Vietnam War, the Black Pope wanted the Vietnam War, the Jesuit General.

Martin: Who was?

Phelps: Jean Baptiste Janssens. He died in 1964. From 1964 to 1983 or so, it was Pedro Arrupe.

Martin: So you’re saying that Janssens had an agenda.

Phelps: Jean Baptist Janssens had an agenda, and that agenda was to annihilate as many Buddhists as possible, because the Buddhists have always been the enemies of the Jesuits. When the Jesuits took Japan in 1873, what did they do? They outlawed, they made it so that the government of Japan would not support the Buddhist religion anymore. Buddhism has ceased to be the state religion. So they’ve always been the enemy of the Buddhists.

The other thing about the Vietnam War is that it created a $220 billion dollar debt for the American people, and that debt was incurred by the Congress, who borrowed that money from the Jesuits’ Federal Reserve Bank.

So the Jesuits made big money. They killed lots of “heretics”. They preserved the CIA.

Because, remember: the CIA was initially founded and set-up by one particular man, Reinhard Gehlen, who was a Nazi General, who was Hitler’s most sinister General. And so, he incorporated all of the Nazi intelligence apparatus into the CIA in the West. It was also incorporated into the KGB in the East. They were called “Freedom Fighters”; they were really working for the KGB, these SS, Nazi men. If the Jesuit General controlled the KGB, he controls the CIA.

Kennedy was getting in the way. Kennedy also did not want the voucher system for public schools, of which George Bush is a great promoter. The Vatican wants the American taxpayer to pay for Catholic schools because, remember, Roman Catholicism, left to itself, without government support, crumbles. It has nothing to offer. There is no freedom of speech, no freedom of press.

THE CATHOLIC PEOPLE DON’T OWN ONE SQUARE FOOT OF CHURCH PROPERTY. THEY DON’T OWN ONE BRICK OF THEIR CHURCHES. IT’S ALL OWNED BY THE HIERARCHY.

They are simply to obey their hierarchy, and in America that’s not good enough. Catholic people don’t want that in America. Catholic people, for the most part, enjoy freedom of press, and freedom of speech, and freedom to make a profit; all of those things the Vatican does not want. A case in point is all of South America and Central America.

Martin: Well, why do you think—other than the fact that there have been 100-200 people killed who knew anything about the JFK assassination—why do you think it’s never come out?

Phelps: Because the American branch of the Knights of Malta, of which McCone was a member, Henry Luce was a member, William F. Buckley was a member, Lee Iacocca was a member, Cartha DeLoach of the FBI was a member, etc. They control the press! And they controlled CBS, at that time, with a man named Frank Shakespeare, who was a Knight of Malta. The Knights control ABC, CBS, and NBC, and Time/Life; that’s why Time/Life attempted to destroy the Zapruder film.

I might also add, throughout the publication of “The Black Pope” interview we did back in May 2000, and my first two manuscripts since that time, there has not been one Roman Catholic who has emailed me, or attempted to contact me in any way, denying that Cardinal Spellman did this; not one. But we have several clandestine Jesuits who are in complete agreement, and who admit that this is exactly what was done.

Martin: Let me ask you about Opus Dei. We’ve been accused of hiding Opus Dei in the background as being the real power behind the Vatican, and therefore, the power over the Jesuits. Have we conspired to withhold the mention of Opus Dei in our discussions?

Phelps: No. Opus Dei is a subordinate organization to the Pope, who is in control of the Knights of Malta, and therefore there are Knights of Malta in Opus Dei.

The Jesuits control Opus Dei through the hierarchy of the Pope and through the Knights of Malta. Opus Dei is composed of prominent Roman Catholic businessmen and politicians who have given themselves over to “God’s work”—that’s what Opus Dei means—for making the Pope the Universal Monarch of the world, ruling the world from Solomon’s rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

An example of this is the former head of the FBI, Louis Freeh, was a member of Opus Dei.

And so, we now understand the Waco incident, where those White Protestants were killed; it was the work of the Opus Dei. And we also have to remember that the sharpshooter, one of them there, was a Japanese Roman Catholic, Lon Horiuchi.

But Opus Dei is determined to create a World Government under the Pope. Opus Dei was created in the 20th Century, whereas the Knights of Malta were created in the 11th Century, and the Jesuits were created in the 16th Century, in 1540, with Ignatius Loyola.

So, the super-secret society of the Jesuit Order, in control of the Knights of Malta, were in existence nearly 500 years before Opus Dei. Opus Dei, like the Knights of Columbus, is a subordinate organization to the Jesuit Order.

Martin: Ok, now that we have some of these things put temporarily to rest—until the book comes out!—let’s talk about the present day.

There are a few things happening that everyone needs to be aware of and concerned about. I’ll just mention a few countries, and then we can begin: Israel, Cuba, China, North Africa, and Japan. What’s happening with our relationship with these countries? How are we going to be sucked-in to a conflict? And what are the ramifications going to be? Lines in the sand are being drawn, alliances are being created between powerful nations, and why should we be concerned about that?

That’s a big question.

Phelps: That’s a big question. I’ll try to deal with a piece at a time, if I may.

I’m going to start with the 14th Amendment American Empire that was established in 1868 after the Jesuit Order destroyed the Federal Republic or the Confederate Republic of sovereign nation states that Washington established in 1789.

The Jesuits have used the 14th Amendment American Empire to restore the temporal power of the Pope over all nations around the world for the last 100 years. And that’s why they have garrisoned American troops throughout the world. That’s why they have laid upon us an iniquitous and sinful federal income tax, with which they finance these crusades around the world.

So, their American Empire has served them well in the restoration of the temporal power of the Pope around the world, especially over Orthodox Russia, Buddhist China, Buddhist Japan, South and Central America through the CIA; this is the purpose for the British and America Empires. They used the British Empire in the 19th Century to do this, and they used the American Empire in the 20th Century to do this. So they take the most powerful Protestant empires, and the wealthiest, harness their governments, and use such for their own purposes.

Alright, now that America has been used for its purpose, it is time to destroy it. And we must remember that America is the haven for the Jews of the world, which the Jesuits have accursed; it is the haven for Bible-believing Protestants, called “heretics”, who the Jesuits have accursed; and it is the haven for peoples of many, many different races who simply want to have some liberty in life, which are called “liberals”, which the Jesuits have accursed.

The United States is a refugee nation, made up of many, many nationalities now. We are no longer a White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant nation, as we were. We are composed of a host of different nationalities, with a host of religious beliefs, and thus this nation has been fragmented and agitated and is a disconcerted mess, with no real national purpose anymore.

The Jesuits have fired-up the Negro agitation of the Civil Rights Movement. They continue to fire that up with Hollywood, with such movies as Roots, etc.

They don’t tell the whole story of Malcolm X. He was an agitator to begin with. When he came back from Mecca, he changed his story and denounced the Nation of Islam, along with the Ku Klux Klan, stating that “they both had the same paymasters”. And he was absolutely right. They have agitated and broken apart this country, so we have no more national purpose.

The next thing that they’ve done, they’ve disarmed us. They’ve closed-down over 100 military bases. We have no domestic defense. The foreigners, the Mexicans come across the borders by the thousands, and the major corporations hire them, and they do their work for them, which is all illegal. It should be punished by law. But we have no punishment by law in this country anymore.

So we have the reign of crime. We have all of these illegal immigrants. We have the destruction of the White race. When this nation ceases to be White, it will cease to be great, because there is not a nation in the world that’s a nation of color that can compete on the international scale of business and trade and commerce; they can’t do it.

A nation that was once White, but is now a nation of color, is Cuba. Cuba used to be a prosperous, beautiful place, but now, with all the amalgamation and inter-racial marriage, it’s 95% Black; it’s under a Roman Catholic, Jesuit-trained Dictator named Fidel Castro; and it is a miserable place to live. And that is EXACTLY what this country is going to be like if it continues on the track it is now on.

The Jesuits have determined to destroy this American Empire that they have used for the last 100 years. So what they are doing now is, they are going to break apart the Empire.

And how are they doing this? Well, one of the things they’ve done is they’ve created this issue where an American submarine hit this Japanese fishing boat, killing all the Japanese on the boat, I believe, and the skipper was court-martialed. But nonetheless, it was a deliberate act of murder, because with that kind of technology on a submarine, you just don’t hit a boat. And you just don’t have some civilian driving the submarine either. That’s ridiculous. So they are creating agitations with nations like Japan, with this incident.

They’re creating deliberate agitation with nations like China, with the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. They’re creating agitations with China, Japan, which will ultimately result in Japan and China uniting. With the military power of China, with the economic power of Japan—when already Hong Kong has been given to China, which now, because of that financial might, China is able to take control of the Panama Canal; they control the canal locks through Hutchen Wimpoa, a Chinese corporation. They are now building the largest shipping dock in the world in the Bahamas, owned by the Red Chinese. The Red Chinese now have the Long Beach Naval Station, which is now Cosco.

So they are in a position now to be able to establish a beach-head when they invade.

The thing is: Does China have the fleet to do it? No, China doesn’t have the fleet right now to do it, but Russia does. Russia has the largest merchant marine fleet in the world. And we are very much deceived into thinking that China and Russia are enemies. They are not enemies; they work together. They are controlled by the same Jesuit Order. The Jesuits run Peking; they also run Moscow. They run the dictator of China and they run the dictator of Russia. It doesn’t matter who he is. It doesn’t matter what their names are. The Jesuits control them, and if they resist them, they’re out! Just like in the United States.

So, they’re breaking apart the American Empire. They’re creating a huge coalition of Oriental nations for our invasion.

Now, let’s talk about Africa. There are 700,000, as I understand it, Chinese troops in Somalia. Chuck Colson, one of the conspirators in the Kennedy assassination and the Watergate cover-up, is now the false Bible-believer, the false Protestant. He’s working for the Jesuits because the head of his prison fellowship is a Roman Catholic.

Colson now is being used to try to get an American military force into the Sudan to save these Black Christians, who in fact are Black Roman Catholics. If that is accomplished, if that is done, we are now going to have a large military force in the Sudan, and there’s a large military force in Somalia. What do you think it would take for those two military forces to clash?

Dome of the Rock

And if those military forces clash, we will have an escalation in Africa, which I believe is what the Jesuits want. Because, if that happens, there can be a surgical strike into Jerusalem for the blowing-up of the Dome of the Rock. The Moslems, the Muftis, have known that was the intent of the Zionists for years, the blowing of the Dome of the Rock, so that Solomon’s Temple can be rebuilt. And you can find this information in Pierre van Paassen’s great work, written in 1939, called Days Of Our Years. So, with this coalition with the 14th Amendment American forces against the Chinese forces in Africa, this could happen.

Now, what would happen as a result of the destruction of the Dome of the Rock? Well, the Moslems regard the Dome of the Rock as the third most important holy place in their religion. They would call for a Jihad against “The Great Satan”, the United States. And with a Jihad, a Holy War, against the United States, they would then go across Africa to West Africa. There will probably be a coalition of ships ready at that time, to be ferried across the Atlantic Ocean into Cuba. And Cuba will be the landing base, the staging base for the invasion of the Protestant American South, the last real Protestant bastion of liberty in the world.

Remember: according to the Koran, it is no murder to kill a Christian; in fact, it is a virtuous act.

So, here we’d have all of these Moslem troopers, millions of Moslem troopers will be landing in Miami, landing in New Orleans, landing in the South of the United States, coupled with a Cuban military force, coupled with, probably, also a Chinese military force coming from the West Coast, and coming up through the Panama Canal to unite with them in the attack of the American South. With the blood bath that will ensue, this whole coalition of nations: China, Russia, Cuba, the Arabs, they will carry out the destruction and annihilation of this North American population, WHICH INCLUDES CANADA; it definitely includes Canada.

It is for this reason, because the government is controlled by the Jesuits, the government of the United States is seeking our total disarmament and the abolition of all gun ownership. This is why the Jesuit Conference, for years, has been anti-gun-ownership, meaning handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

So, to have the American people completely disarmed, our military cut way down, we have no Navy any more, really, to speak of; we have no Army—it’s a totally demoralized Army, with this forced integration; and we have Black supremacy in the Army.

I was there, in Germany, for 3 years. I watched it with my own eyes. So, we have a demoralized American Army that doesn’t know what to fight.

Martin: Let me just jump-in here to say that Bush is beefing-up the military, reversing what was done previously by Clinton. How can you say we have a weak Army when we’re about to spend billions beefing up our defenses? Is this just a show?

Phelps: That’s just a show. Because the Jesuits who controlled Clinton are the same Jesuits who control Bush. And remember, we were already scaling-down with Carter and Reagan and Ford.

And so, this whole idea of re-armament, it might be for some super-system of preventing missiles from coming in, an anti-ballistic missile system, but that’s ridiculous, because we know there is no such thing as universal nuclear war. We have no evidence that incoming nukes can detonate a specific target.

We don’t know EXACTLY what transpired at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but they have contorted that into the hoax of thermo-nuclear war, which I do not believe can happen. Bruce Cathie doesn’t believe it can happen; William Cooper doesn’t believe it can happen; and other physicists don’t believe it can happen. Other physicists don’t believe it’s possible, which now limits us to a standing army of men who know how to fight, which we do not have. We don’t have it anymore.

So, with all of these hordes of invaders coming in, and a disarmed population, it would be a piece of cake. Remember that Spain was invaded by 4 million Moslem troopers. They landed in the Canary Islands, and from the Canary Islands they then invaded Spain, and they were led by a Roman Catholic Archbishop who was backing Franco! This is in the 1930s.

If they did it in the ’30s, won’t they do it now? And if they used Moslems to kill Orthodox Serbians just recently, in the 1990s, wouldn’t they use Moslems to kill Protestant Americans? If they used Moslems to kill Roman Catholic Spanish, wouldn’t they do the same thing here? Sure they would. So that’s what is happening in the United States.

Martin: What just happened in Europe with Bush going over there and theoretically being given a hard time by the European community? What do you see happening in Europe right now?

Phelps: Well, not believing the press is our first maxim of reading.

Remember, a unified Europe is a Vatican brainchild. That all originated with the Jesuits in the Vatican for the reuniting of the Holy Roman Empire, which our friend Leo Lehmann said is exactly what the Jesuits wanted in 1942—a reunited Holy Roman Empire with a Catholic Germany at it’s core.

Martin: And you base all of your conclusions just on this one person?

Phelps: No, no, no, no—this is a certain topic, and he adds to the color we’re given.

Martin: I know that, but I asked the question that way because not all of our readers will be aware of the extent of the bibliography supporting the contentions of your research in VATICAN ASSASSINS.

Phelps: Ok. The Jesuits want a unified Europe. The Bible-believers of England are greatly resisting it, but the Jesuit-controlled Tony Blair will, ultimately, bring England into that Union. And Bush is helping to co-ordinate that, because the Federal Reserve Bank, the largest bank in the world, is one of the greatest contributors, or players, in international trading.

Martin: Are you saying that Alan Greenspan is a pawn of the Jesuit Order?

Phelps: Absolutely. Alan Greenspan is a Masonic Jewish Zionist and a pawn of the Jesuit Order. And the Jesuits are very careful to have visible Jews at the head of the Federal Reserve System so they can blame all the evils of the Federal Reserve Bank on the Jews.

We’re never told, for example, that the head, right now, of the most powerful Federal Reserve Bank—because there are 12 of them—in New York is a man named McDonough. He’s an Irish Roman Catholic. He’s a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He’s a friend, a bosom-buddy of O’Hare, who is the President and Jesuit of the 4th Vow of Fordham University.

Why are we not told that about the Federal Reserve Bank? It’s always Jews, Jews, Jews. Jews are just pawns. They’ve always been the bankers for the Pope. The Masonic Jewish bankers are the bankers for the Pope. And before the Rothschild's, it was the Fuggers.

Martin: Who are the College of Cardinals who choose the Pope?

Phelps: The College of Cardinals is REALLY the Roman Senate. The Pope is really the Caesar. And so this military Caesar is elected by Roman Senators, as to who will be their leader for World Government under the 7th Roman Caesar, who’s yet to come. And so, the ones who do the electing are the Cardinals.

Martin: Now, those who see the current Pope see a very frail man. Has he served well? Is that why he’s been allowed to stay on so long?

Phelps: He’s done very well. He’s served the Jesuit Order perfectly. This supposed rift between him and Arrupe, and suppressing the Jesuits with their Liberation Theology in Central America, is all for public consumption. That Pope is completely emasculated with regard to the power of the Jesuit Order.

The Jesuit Order has proven its power with the Napoleonic Wars, the killing of Pope Pius VI, the imprisoning of Pius VII, the restoration by Pius VII.

THE JESUIT ORDER IS OMNIPOTENT WHEN IT COMES TO THE PAPACY, AND THEY ARE THE ONES IN POWER.

Just like Hitler fashioned his Third Reich around the Papacy, the Secret Police or the SS were modeled after the Jesuits, and the Jesuits are the Secret Police of the Vatican Empire. They keep things in order. Without the Jesuit Order, the Vatican and the Papacy and the hierarchy would fall apart.

Martin: Who issued the Papal Bull suppressing the Jesuit Order?

Phelps: Pope Clement XIV.

Martin: Let’s talk about that.

Phelps: Pope Clement XIV was a Franciscan. His name was Ganganelli. He was elected Pope due to the influence of the Bourbon monarchs—the Bourbon King of Spain, the Bourbon King of France, and the Braganzas of Portugal. Those insisted that a Pope would be brought to power who would suppress the Jesuit Order, because the Jesuits were busy making billions in South America, and never gave a dime to the Portuguese King and the Spanish King.

Martin: How were they making money in South America?

Phelps: They were making money in South America with their Reductions.

Martin: What are Reductions?

Phelps: Reductions are like communes; they’re like a Kibbutz in Israel or a commune in Russia.

Martin: And what years are we talking about.

Phelps: We’re talking between 1600-1750, roughly 150 years of these Reductions, where these Garani Indians were putting hides and tallow and clocks and the Paraguay herb and many, many commodities into international shipping and trade—which the Jesuits shipped all around the world with their “Black Ships”, and had HUGE commercial profits with which they started banks in Europe and then funded wars. And one of the projects that they funded were the Napoleanic Wars.

Martin: This Pope, Ganganelli, suppressed the Jesuits with a Papal Bull?

Phelps: That’s right. Dominus Ac Redemptor. That was the Bull. That is its formal name.

Martin: What is a Bull?

Phelps: A Bull is a legal document that the Pope speaks within his most powerful method of speaking. It’s sealed with “the seal of the fishman”. A “brief” does not have that seal. A brief is a less powerful document; it can be overruled with a Bull.

Martin: So, this Pope, in 1773, issued the Bull eliminating the Jesuit Order forever?

Phelps: Forever! After a 4-year investigation of all their intrigues, of all their power, of all their wealth, of all their buildings, everything, after a 4-year investigation they were abolished by Clement XIV. And, remember, Clement XIII was about to do the same thing when, the night before, he was poisoned.

So, Clement XIV was brought to power then and, after a 4-year investigation, he suppresses them. And when he did so, he said: “This suppression will be my death.”

Martin: And it